GT is perhaps one of the few shows with a Gainax Beginning. First and most important, why is Pilaf even alive? Considering all that happened in Z, he should have been killed by Buu and not revived later. No Pilaf, NO GT!
Because Pilaf and his gang aren't evil, the fact that they are also alive in the Battle of Gods film prove that. The only villains that wouldn't be revived were those who were pure evil and the Pilaf gang don't fall in that group.The Pilaf. Hell, the Dragon revived guys like Spike, the Devilman and Giran. Really, the only villain that was still alive when Buu killed everyone on earth and likely wasn't revived would be Mercenary Tao, because he never changed.
Movie script?
Why is Pilaf so old when in Battle of Gods him and his gang are kids? That's probably Toriyama's "screw you" to GT, since it's confirmed that GT is non-canon.
It has never been confirmed that GT is non-canon since there is no official DB canon. There are just different timelines.
Of course there is no DB canon, but we don't need the creators to distinguish what does and what does not influence future products set in a said universe (which is what "canon" essentially is). GT stopped being possibly canon as soon as Hell was depicted the same as DBZ filler as a way to drive the plot, and fell even further away from the possibility of being canon when movie villains cameo'ed. From the Super 17 Saga onwards, it is obvious that no future animated product would consider GT as having really happened, and this is just what occurred from 2008 (the Tarble special) onwards.
I am pretty sure the alternate timeline theory has been put to rest thanks to the existence of Time rings that indicate alternate timelines in Dragon Ball Super.
Battle of the Gods had Pilaf's gang wish for youth offscreen before the movie even started. They're considerably older than Bulma (who's over 40 in the movie), but got aged back to kids.
Plus, GT explicity states that the Dragonballs had been used 7 times. Pilaf's gang using them makes it at least 8 and Goku summoning Shenlong to learn about the Super Saiyan God is one more. With Frieza's revival, it's now 10.
With Shenron being summoned to cure Pan of her sickness, we better stop counting.
Why not wish the Black star Dragonballs back with the regular ones?
Shenron isn't omnipotent when it comes to making wishes. In fact, a similar wish was asked of him in Super (Tell us the location of the Super Dragon Balls) and he promptly failed to grant it, exclaiming in the dub that "space is so very vast! I'm afraid my powers are not so almighty that I can pick but one object in its boundless expanse..."
That doesn't explain why they didn't at least try. While we can excuse them for not trying to use the regular Dragon Balls to wish the Namekian balls back (since in all circumstances where they needed the Namekian balls, they were able to gather them on their own), they still could've at least tried. For that matter, why not ask the Namekians to try with the Namekian Dragon Balls?
Shenron is omnipotent because, for example, he know what Oolong means by "the Saiyans" (Vegeta and Nappa), and he later knows where Namek is and what constitutes a Namekian; he had no trouble reviving the populace millions of light years away back in Z. That said, a sufficient excuse for GT would be to say that even an individual Black Star Ball far exceeds his power to move, since that's an established limitation and the Black Star Balls are the normal Dragon Balls up to eleven. Same of course would apply to Porunga.
Okay then, why not just have Goku teach 7 members of the gang Instant Transmission and then use Shenron to wish said seven to the locations of the Black Star Dragon Balls? That would surely be within Shenron's abilities, and it would take less than a month tops.
Goku's skin tone has completely changed to a very tanned complexion for no reason. Nobody else seems to have had any such issues.
Spending a long time in the sun tends to make you very, very tanned.
Then it should have happened a long time ago.
It should've also happened to Vegeta and Gohan, for that matter.
There's also Trunk's hair going from whitish-purple in Z to a more overt (but still light) shade of purple in GT.
For the same reason Uub has tan skin. Goku spent time training him in his home land, which was a tropical island, so he got tanned too.
In DBZ, being killed in the afterlife means becoming Deader Than Dead. In GT, Goku kills Frieza and Cell, and they just regenerate because they're already dead. WHAAAAAT?
Well, consider the following. Before the deader than dead rule was established, it had actually been demonstrated that someone who was killed in the afterlife simply regenerated. It was established in anime only filler, I will grant you, but there's precedent for it, is the point. Secondly, the deader than dead rule is never actually proven. It's theorized and feared, but we never see it in action. Thirdly, it's easily handwaved by saying that if Buu kills you in the afterlife, you're deader than dead, because Buu breaks the rules of the universe, but that most anyone else killing a soul in the afterlife would have no real affect.
Yes it was demonstrated and flat out stated in the Grand Kai filler that the dead can't die again. The only problem with your point is that is filler! which pretty much negates your whole defense. Fillers in general have a tendency to created plot holes with the main story.Which is why they're usually disregarded by fans and the author. You're suggesting that we should total disregard a rule established in canon (granted we never saw it in action) for a rule shown only in filler and nowhere else( which basically means it never happen). I mean GT was suppose to be canon right?
THAT'S the problem with your argument. GT was never canon to begin with. It's also anime-only so it's not too much of a stretch that they used something from another filler arc.
Where on earth did you get the idea that GT was never canon to begin with? GT was only officially declared non-canon recently upon the release of Battle of the Gods back in 2013. Nearly a decade after GT was release in the U.S and over 15 year after it ended in Japan . My point is if what you're saying is true and GT was never meant to be canon from the beginning then why didn't they stated that from the beginning and not wait over 15 years after the series was already over. Not to mention the fact that many people did considered and treated GT as if it was canon up until Battle of the Gods.
This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been discontinued). From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, despite what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 saga onwards.
GT was never based on any story or manga made by Toriyama, unlike the rest of DBZ. The only thing from GT made by Toriyama is Super Saiyan 4. GT is practically a filler series, but I digress.
Canon means "approved by the author" not written by him. Otherwhise every Batman comic in the last 50 years would be noncanon.
Actually, Toriyama didn't design Super Saiyan 4. It was design by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru. What Toriyama did design is kid Goku, Pan, Trunks, and Vegeta with his infamous mustache. He also designed the space ship and Giru, as well as did some concept arts. He even came up with the name Grand Tour. He had nothing to do with the overall story, however.
Just what happened to Gohan's Mystic power-up when GT rolled around? Did he lose it when he got pulled out of Buu? It just faded away? He was just damn uninterested in fighting anymore when he grew up?
The writers forgot. Long Pause. That's the real reason.
The third one, methinks. He always was the more intellectual one in that family. Besides, he's married to Videl now, right? Anyway, GT wasn't written by Toriyama, so we can probably just drop this one in Canon Discontinuity. They seemed more interested in turning Goku into a kid and inventing SSJ4 than expanding on Gohan's abilities.
Or remembering that he couldn't turn Super Saiyan. (The old Kai told him to try and do 'that super-saiyan thing'. He turned Mystic, with a different hair style to normal, that of his SSJ2 form, but not blonde.)
The unfortunate real world answer is that its both a plot hole and a willing part of the script writers to make Goku the hero of GT. However, to attempt to explain this in-universe it relies on working out what exactly the Mystic Form actually is. If its a power up similar to when Guru unlocked his Hidden Potential, then there is a simple answer because it happens to be rooted in previous canon. During Dragon Ball Z its noted that his Super Saiyan 2 form had considerably weakened because he was no longer training; its not that he lost the Mystic Form, he was always using it throughout GT - its just weakened to the point where Goku and Vegeta have surpassed him. If on the other hand its a Transformation similar to Super Saiyan or the Kaioken then it once again comes back to Gohan's lack of training. Like his weakened Super Saiyan 2 form, it may now be impossible for him to transform given the massive energies required - it does after all surpass Super Saiyan 3.
That explanation doesn't fly for a number of reasons. while it's true in the movies Wrath of the Dragon, Battle of Gods, and the Budokai games, the form is treated like a transformation, as Gohan accesses the form by powering up. there is NO massive energies requirement! old kai simple said power up like for the Super Saiyan transformation which clearly mean it doesn't require anymore energy that Super saiyan and he can still did that in GT. Also yes it's true that the reason why gohan SSJ4 was weaken in the Buu saga was because of his lack of training. HOWEVER that only because SSJ amplify base form so weak base form = weak transformation. mystic is different it allow gohan to directly tap into his full potential regardless base form.
There's also the WMG (which, when you think about it, makes sense) that Pan accidentally took it. She's easily at the power level of Goku when he fought Androids 19 and 20 (proven by her easily beating Android 20). No matter how much training she did, and how many times she almost died, there's nothing that could have logically elevated her to that level. Mind you, that's a power level stronger than Freeza. From a 10 to 12 (about 2 years had passed by that point, so if she was 10 at the start, she would be 12 by then) year old girl.
That's not unnatural. Goten and Trunks' base power at the end of Z was more or less at Frieza's level. Though from what we've seen in Z, that much increase really comes from mastering the Super Saiyan form, which apart from making it ultra powerful and efficient, seems to boost the base form's power proportionately as well, as Goku demonstrates in the afterlife. Before any of them made Super Saiyan as efficient as their normal state, they absolutely couldn't get to Frieza's level and beyond without going Super Saiyan.
Here is the thing about that when someone inherit traits from there parents in this case mystic energy normally the parent would NOT lose their own. Besides Pan is nowhere near as strong as her father was at the end of z.
She's also grew up in peacetime and isn't fully grown. Before receiving the Mystic power-up, Gohan was already a veteran of the Saiyan Invasion, the war on Namek, the Cell Games, been through the grueling experience of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, 17 years old, and put on death's door by Majin Buu. The zenki boosts and Level Grinding he's been through, not to mention being almost an adult, easily explain him outclassing GT Pan.
Except that doesn't explain what happen to Gohan's mystic form. Saying that Pan took it would be like saying if son has your eyes you will lose your eyes. Also mystic form is suppose to unlock a person true power regardless of the strength of their base form. so unless she already at her maximum strength (and that's the strongest she'll ever get!)she clearly doesn't have it.
Read: The writer's forgot about him. On purpose. There is NO in universe reason. The series isn't even canon.
Why did Goku age back to adulthood when in SSJ4 form? Was it just Ruleof Cool, or did it have an in-universe justification?
If I recall correctly, it was because his Super Saiyan 4 form was stronger than the Red Shenron. That may just have been Fanon, though.
Which is itself a pretty bland Handwave. There's no way for the Nameless Namek to be stronger than Goku SSJ3, or else Piccolo should have been able to fight with Fat Buu. I guess it's another Plot Hole for Dragon Ball GT.
Not really. Shenron can't affect anyone who's stronger than its creator, but was it ever stated that the Black Star Shenron had the same limitation? It could be that, as an unofficial (non-Kami/Guru/Planetary Sponsor) dragon with huge drawbacks, it could affect anyone who wasn't stronger than itself. That's starting to get close to Fan Wank, however, and is completely invalid if it was stated to have the same limitation and completely moot if it was a different reason.
I always thought that Goku's SSJ4 form was so strong, it could resist the Dragon Ball's powers.
Ass Pull people, that's the truth. They made Goku a kid because they thought DBZ was too much of serious fighting and they wanted to go back to the DB days. Then they realized it was a very bad idea, as even the audience began losing respect for Goku like Pan does, so they tried to go back to the DBZ ways. They didn't really think of any other way except to throw in Instant Age Settings and Instant Tailor for SSJ* While Gohan's advice to Goku to 'just grow up like any other child' is sound, what's to stop them from collecting the regular Dragonballs to wish Goku back to adulthood again?** ''Or'' if a wish from the Black Star Dragonballs overrides the Red Star Dragonballs somehow, what was stopping Chi Chi from wishing herself younger? after all they did first meet as small children (and indeed proposed to each other which Chi Chi took ''very'' seriously well into her teens) and it's not as if Chi Chi still has any dependents to care for. Even if you argue that Chi Chi would be {{Squick}}ed by the thought of being a little girl once again, why she didn't revert to her teens when Goku hit 16 for example is anyone's guess. As things stand Goku apparently accepted being the carer of an old lady (unless he ran off again of course) and Chi Chi apparently just accepted her death by old age despite having the potential access to seven magic balls [[IdiotBall that could restore her youth.]]** Well, Chi-Chi's been established as a woman who wanted a regular family, that likely includes husband she could grow old, and eventually die of old age with. The fact that he's gone and gotten himself turned into a kid again is frankly, and rightfully so, very stupid; and the idea that she has to cater to his whims, including using the Dragonballs to turn herself into a child again is, again rightfully so, very selfish. Goku may have been fine with the prospect of having to relive his childhood and adult years (with the retained memories of his first time growing up), but she wasn't. Also, think of Gohan and Goten. Can you imagine how they'd have to explain it to their superiors? To...''anyone''?--> Gohan: Yeah, I know it's weird, but these two kids who are clearly young enough to be my son and daughter are really my mom and dad. N-no, I don't have legal papers on them, nor am I their legal guardians because ''I'm their son''! H-hey! Why are you reaching for that phone? I-I'm telling you the truth, these two kids are actually my parents! C'mon, they'll vouch for me!--> *Hours later*--> Capsule Corps. News Anchor: A local man named Gohan has been taken in custody for allegedly kidnapping and brainwashing two innocent children into thinking that he's their son, and that they were once fully grown adults who shrunk themselves thanks to a wish they made to...eh...a dragon that came out of seven <fingerquotes>''dragonballs''<fingerquotes>. He's now in an asylum pending review, while the children are in the care of a children psychiatric ward.** and then later he could just-->Gohan: *transforms into Super Saiyan 2 and bitchslaps the wall to pieces*while-->Vegeta: *Super Saiyan* will you people PLEASE stop doubting anything involving Kakarot's family and friends? I mean, the world has blown up about 8 times in my lifetime, hell, I almost did it once myself about 20 years ago! Kakarrot has a monkey tail and can do this little transformation deal, too, actually being able to go about 5 levels of upgrade HIGHER than me, and you've all actually '''SEEN''' this dragon at least twice! I think we're WELL past the point of "believe anything out of that family's mouths"!!!!!!--> Yamcha: Actually, the dragon has been summoned more than twice by now. I'd wager a few dozen times at least, so...yeah, there's no excuse to not knowing about the dragonballs.--> Krillin: Seriously. I mean, do you lot have a poor memory span? You've seen us fight in tournaments, so it should come to no surprise to you that we can fly and shoot ki beams...yet you act like you're having cardiac arrest whenever we so much as walk up to you. Nevermind the fact that we inhabit this world with dog and cat people. Hell, the king himself is a ''freaking dog''!** And thus ''GT'' is somehow miraculously transitioned into ''VideoGame/DragonBallOnline''.** Couldn't they have just used the black star balls to wish Goku to age at the rate of a year per minute for the next 30-40 minutes?*** Why black? The regular ones would have been ok.*** Actually, it's implied that even if a wish within the powers of the Earth Dragon Balls are made using the Black Star Dragon Balls, the latter are too strong for the former to override. Doesn't explain why they don't use the Namekian Dragon Balls.* Why didn't Piccolo decide to destroy the Red Star Dragonballs instead of sacrificing Himself? Or he could have just summoned Red Shenron and killed him for good as he had done back in DB?* Vegeta mentions that "A true Sayain's hair never changes" back in Z, yet he grows a mustache. And his hair has become significantly shorter.** He may have been talking about hair styles. If that was true, then it seems improbable that some Sayains have facial hair (like King Vegeta) while most everyone else doesn't.** Its pretty obvious Vegeta is talking about his head not his face. As to why we see so few Saiyan's with beards could be explained by the fact that only middle aged men can grow them - King Vegeta, Vegeta Jr and Nappa were all of advancing years when we first see their facial hair.** Speaking of Nappa I could have sworn he had short black almost Recoome style hair in some of the flashbacks.** And what about his hair?** He cut it. Until he transforms (something that we're told hadn't happened for a thousand years prior to the start of the series) it remains the same. I imagine culturally a race who's hair remains static they would probably view hair cuts as a huge deal and none is made of Vegeta's but that could be an oversight.* After fusing with Buu, Uub now has all the powers of Majin Buu, so why can't he heal Goku (who's been blinded by Ice Shenron) if he can at least heal himself? He doesn't even have to restore his energy, just get his eyes back up and functioning.** Because Syn Shenron is ''right there''. Uub would have to run into the heat of the fight, spend a few seconds healing Goku while praying to God that Syn Shenron didn't kill him then and there. It was too risky.** Speaking of which you wonder why Uub can't even heal himself, nor has the unlimited stamina + Infinite regeneration capabilities of Kid Buu. Considering that he could reverse the effect of his candy spells, this is seriously a major question mark.* If [=SSJ4 allowed Goku to go back into adult form, why didn't he just stay in his adult form. Better yet, why didn't the power of SSJ4 permanently revert him to an adult?
They needed Goku to be a kid for the plot. Don't question it, GT is stupid.
After fighting Goku for numerous episodes as a Great Ape, Baby just leaves Vegeta's body, gets on a ship, tries to make an escape, and then gets blasted into the sun by Goku. The thing about that is not only is it anti-climatic, it also subverts what Baby as a character was doing up to the point. Instead of running away he would have instead realized Goku was stronger than his current host and through some underhanded means try to acquire his body as he had with Goten, Gohan, and Vegeta. And even if he knew that wouldn't work, his hatred for the Saiyans was too great for him to just leave. Really his character would of at least tried to blow himself up or something.
This falls under the "You failed me" trope. If Dolltaki knew Dr. Myuu would have him killed for his failure, then why did he report back to his planet? Why not flee to the other side of the universe and change his identity? This moron goes back to his master's planet and gets killed by the general.
Maybe Dolltaki would have preferred that to spending whatever was left of his life living in fear of Dr. Myuu. Either that, or Dr. Myuu doesn't actually do that very often.
If Dolltaki did came back on purpose to face his faith opposed to running and hiding and living the rest of his life in fear then it would a completely out of character moment since acting cowardly, and running and hiding seem to be a really big part of his personality up until this point . Plus he seemed surprised and terrified when he was about to be killed and even begged for his life so I really doubt this was Dolltaki intension. And if it's the latter and Myuu doesn't usually back up his threats then why are so many of his men so scared of him? only possibility I can think up is that Dolltaki honestly thought he could convince Myuu not to kill him, and even then that seems foolish.
I meant, maybe he decided that simply facing his fate would have been better than the alternative, or that while Dr. Myuu does kill people who fail him, he doesn't do it all the time so maybe he thought he could be one of the exceptions. Besides, bad guys who fail their superiors for some reason go back to their superiors despite knowing that their boss will probably kill them, this is no different.
If getting killed was Dolltaki's intention then why did he seem so scared of dying.
Why wouldn't he be?
Because this was all apparently apart of his plan, and no one is making him do this. If dying scared him so much he could easily run away or not report back. the universe is very very vast place and they'll probably never ever find him if he did choose to run.
Also not only Myuu said he'll killed him but Myuu has already tried to kill him(when he turn Dolltaki into a doll and tried to fed him to one of his machine monsters).So let me see if I got this straight. Dolltaki the Dirty Coward decided to man up and face his fate opposed to running and hiding (in spite of the fact that running and hiding was all he did up until this point). So he reports back to his boss who not only said he'll kill Dolltaki but already tried to once before, and in spite of the fact getting killed was Dolltaki's intension (opposed to running) he seem completely terrify by it. Well, that just makes perfect sense
He's scared to death of dying, doesn't mean he wasn't ready to die. Contrary to what fiction will tell you, it is rare to find somebody who goes to face their death just stoically taking the bullet. No, they're terrified and they act as such. There are really any number of reasons Dolltaki could have done what he did, it doesn't have to be out of character for him to do. Besides, as I said before, this kind of thing happens a lot in fiction, it doesn't make sense and doesn't have to. It's just something a character does for some reason and that reason isn't always something the audience is privy to.
I can't think of that many examples of a Character reporting back to their Insane Boss(who not only said he'll kill him but tried to already) for reasons that were never given or that completely conflicts their character in fiction. and even this does happen from time to time it's bad writing plan and simple. Characters can change and grow over time, but they do not (or should not) suddenly act out of character just of the sake of plot convenience , and a good writer should try to explain character's motives or at least make it apparent. Here they failed, If what you are saying is true and that getting killed was truly Dolltaki's intension ( as conflicting to his character as that maybe) then the writers did a terrible job of establishing it. They gave absolutely zero indication that was his intention. That aside, the show give no logically or sensible reason and that probably because there is none. Facing certain death head on is not something a dirty coward would do especially in this case. I mean Myuu already has a lot on his plate, he trying to collect the Black star dragon balls, he's also tracking the sayain and finding a way to kill them, and trying to revive baby. you think he'll really waste his time and his effort sending a group of killers to hunter down and kill a single minion that he no longer has any use for throughout the entire universe. That could take years, and Myuu has way bigger fish fry.
